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Interview by Shelley Peckham

When I was a kid, visits to 701 East Washington Avenue were not what they are today. Before it became one of the coolest music venues in town, the space was occupied by The Buy & Sell Shop, where I spent countless hours reluctantly trolling behind my parents as they searched for treasures throughout the labyrinth of Madison’s used miscellany. Shopping for kitsch among piles and piles of musty tossaways in varying shades of browns and grays wasn’t exactly a preferred activity for my seven-year-old self.

That bored little girl probably never imagined that she would end up frequenting the building again on her own terms in her adult years, but the changing times have indeed created an infinitely more appealing incarnation of the space. Where there were once shelves of oddly shaped jars, broken cameras and vintage scuba gear, there is now a stage which has supported the stomping boots and throbbing amps of some of music’s most thrilling artists. Gone are the days of dust and mothballs. Enter the rock dragon: The High Noon Saloon.

Since 2004, the venue has become a musical sanctuary, housing some of the most beautiful, brutal, and brilliant sounds to hit the city. Ask any Madison music fan what their favorite rock club is, and you’re likely to hear “High Noon Saloon” echoed ad infinitum.

The woman behind this treasured venue is Cathy Dethmers, an engaged, creative, intelligent force who has ruled the roost with a punk rock D.I.Y. ethos and an uncompromising dedication to being an honest businesswoman.

I recently sat down with Dethmers to talk about how she got to where she is today, her beginnings at O’Cayz Corral, her views on the Madison music scene, and what the future might hold for The High Noon Saloon.

Tell me a little bit about yourself—where you grew up, how you got into music, etc.

I grew up in Brookfield, which is a suburb of Milwaukee, and I started really getting into live music when I was 14. I started going to a lot of shows [in] downtown Milwaukee. At the time, there were a lot of all-ages matinee punk shows and stuff like that going on, so that’s what really sort of drew me in to being into bands and clubs and that kind of thing. I moved to Madison to go to college in 1990.

Part of the reason why I wanted to come here was because I had been up here for shows in the past and experienced a lot of the free music at the UW, Union, or whatever. And I had actually already been to O’Cayz at that point, underage [laughs], and thought that place was really cool. That was kind of a big part of the reason why I wanted to come to school here as opposed to somewhere else. It just had a really cool vibe and cool scene.

What did you study?

I went for cultural anthropology. I guess because that my major and I didn’t have any huge follow-up career plans with that, I had sort of toyed around with the idea of opening up some kind of totally idealistic rock club-slash-alternative bookstore-slash coffee shop sort of thing.

Ultimately that dream was maybe a little bit ambitious, but I bartended at O’Cays my last 2 years of college and then it closed down like RIGHT before my last semester. So, as I was sort of trying to figure out what I would do after school was over I also looked into what was happening with O’Cayz because I just really missed it. I hoped someone would take it over and it would still be a club. No one was doing that, so I just did a little bit of poking around to see what it would take for me to do that on my own and got it together.

Was it intimidating to take that on?

Yeah, it was, definitely. I mean, the way O’Cayz was run when I bartended there was really loose. I mean, I never even met the owner and I worked there for two years, so it was kind of like absentee ownership. The manager and the sound tech pretty much ran the show there. In some ways that made it a little bit easier for me to get into it because they were just kind of like people only a little bit older than me, and they didn’t have ownership experience either, and they were kind of making it work. I guess it gave me the confidence to think maybe I could do it too.

You’re a musician yourself, right?

Yup, I play bass.

How long have you been doing that?

I think I was in my first band in maybe ’96. I’ve played instruments my whole life, but as far as being in a band, I’m pretty sure that was my first one.

It seems like everyone who’s into music has at least one “big band” that makes a major impact on their life—a band that’s kind of a starting point for everything they get into later. Is that true for you?

Gosh, I haven’t thought about that in a long time! I guess I started getting into punk rock because some of my friends had older siblings that were into it, so we just got a bunch of hand-me-down tapes and stuff like that. Some of the bands I remember listening to that very first summer when I started going to shows were Suicidal Tendencies, Sex Pistols, Dead Milkmen, The Suburbs…Couch Flambeau because they were local, um…yeah and then I had some crossover into metal a little bit. In my high school there weren’t very many people into punk rock but there were a lot of metalheads. Old Metallica and Anthrax and stuff like that were kind of part of the deal too.

Dead Milkmen

For someone who never got the chance to visit O’Cayz, how would you describe it? Was it mostly punk-oriented?

Yeah, I think in a lot of ways it was. We definitely did a broad spectrum of music but it skewed more towards punk or metal or stoner rock—more heavier rock I guess. We did have Clyde Stubblefield there every Monday night; we had a blues jam on Tuesdays. We had the occasional jam band—a little bit of everything. I think we had a really regular clientele and most of those people were into punk rock.

What kind of thoughts were running through your head after the fire? [O’Cayz Corral was destroyed in a fire in the early morning hours of New Years Day, 2001.]

Actually, the very next day I started looking for another place to be. In retrospect, I probably should have taken some time to distance myself from it and kind of re-evaluate what I wanted to do with my life. But it just came as such a shock and at a time when I felt like I had really found my groove there and things were going well.

I was kind of starting to try new things with the club and I just wasn’t ready for it to be over. I was immediately like, “My first priority is to get back open!” I had no idea it would take as long as it did, but I pretty much worked on it everyday after that until we opened this place.

When you were in planning mode, what was your vision for The High Noon?

That’s probably another place where I could have benefited from taking a step back, because I think my biggest motivation was to re-create O’Cayz, but through the course of three years of looking and considering different spaces and going through the city process of approval and stuff, I kind of grew that vision a little bit.

This place is bigger—quite a bit bigger than O’Cayz, and it’s nicer. I just thought, “I want to still have a punk club, but a punk club that can also do a lot of other things.” I guess that was probably my main thinking.

Versatility is a big thing?

Yup. Yeah, I mean at that point I definitely didn’t envision that I would be doing kids shows, lots of wedding receptions and stuff like that, but those have been things that have been really fun to take on too.

What’s a typical workday like for you?

I usually come in pretty early. I would say the majority of my day is spent booking bands—just responding to e-mails and seeking things out. Related to that, advertising and making sure that we’re promoting the shows properly, getting the word out and evaluating new advertising strategies—stuff like that.

Beyond that, there’s a lot of day-to-day management of the business in general—dealing with bookwork and finances and stuff like that, and then staff issues. Like, one of the things I do on Tuesdays is fill out show information for the staff for the whole coming week so that everyone that works here knows what to expect on a given night and how to deal with a certain show.

One thing I really like about The High Noon is that every time I come in, I see the same faces. Would you say you have pretty low staff turnover?

Yeah, it seems that way. I think we all sort of feel a little bit like family here, which has its ups and downs as any family does, but I think overall it seems like it must be a nice place to work, and people like to stick around. That makes it really easy for me to be able to count on the staff to back me up in times when I can’t be here, or to just have a really solid familiarity with how we run things so they can answer questions when people have them. It’s just a really big load off my mind to not have to worry about some of those little details because everyone’s been here so long that they just know what needs to happen.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been here and seen you working behind the bar alongside your staff, which not every venue owner does. Is hands-on management important to you?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I really enjoy bartending, but it’s also a really good way for me to stay on top of what happens on that front. It’s really easy for me to get stuck in the office and just be so focused on booking or dealing with the business that I lose touch with what really needs to happen when we’re open. So, it’s a good way for me to be there.

Would you say that being a musician yourself—having that experience on both sides of the coin—has influenced any of the business decisions you make?

I do, yeah. I mean I guess it’s given me a better perspective on what’s fair for musicians and what seems ethical as far as how to treat musicians and stuff like that. For instance, there’s a lot of promoters or venues that will take a percentage of a band’s merchandise sales because they’ve sold them in your space. I just feel like that’s not right, you know? The band paid for that merch, that’s their own property and sure, I’m allowing them to sell it here, but that money should be theirs. I don’t know if I would have that same perspective if I hadn’t been a musician before and realized what it takes to even create shirts to begin with. I think stuff like that helps keep me really grounded.

So many positions of power in the music business are held by men. How do you think being a woman has made an impact on what you do or how you are perceived professionally? Or is it a non-issue?

I would say I don’t notice it being an issue so much anymore, but definitely when I started O’Cayz, it was a BIG thing. Part of that was probably also because I was a lot younger, and so I think I had ageism to deal with as well as sexism. I also think it was just less common then for women to be in those positions in the industry. I really felt a lot of discrimination or condescension or whatever, and it was sometimes hard for me to do business back then.

Now, I think in some ways that’s changed because I’ve been sort of a fixture in this town for a long time and so people are just used to having to deal with me, and know what I’m about. I also think it’s just become more common for women to become booking agents or band managers or club owners or whatever. That just didn’t happen that much 10 years ago even. So that makes it easier too, when there’s just more women out there.

You felt like people just wouldn’t take you seriously?

Yeah, that was a big part of it, or feeling like they could just railroad over me with things because—I can only assume because—I was a young woman, instead of actually engaging in serious business with me and thinking, “Oh I can just do things this way even though that’s not what we agreed upon, and she’s just going to have to take it.”

In your opinion, what makes an awesome show?

That’s kind of a tough one. There’s definitely certain bands that are always going to be more fun. I guess, personally, I like a real more gritty kind of rock show, rather than something that’s maybe a little more mellow or more hit-of-the-moment. I just think the crowd gets more excited.

I mean, definitely if there’s an up-and-coming new band and it’s their first time in town, there’s a palpable excitement in the room and that’s really fun.

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It’s just a little bit more organic. Whatever happens, happens and that’s all part of the fun. It’s more spontaneous. I just feel like that’s more contagious to the crowd and everybody just seems to have a better time—better spirits and good vibes all around.

That’s really cool to hear you say. I would think those shows would be harder to manage on your end.

They can be, but not much really. I feel like either we’ve been really lucky or it’s just the way it is, but I think people—bands and customers here—really seem respectful of the venue for the most part. I mean, certainly we’ve had our problems but I just think people value having that experience and they want to be able to have it again, so [bands and patrons] are not going to destroy that opportunity, so that’s the way I think of it.

What were some of your favorite shows here over the years?

Well, The Melvins. Every time they come here it’s a lot of fun. They definitely are a good example of that. I mean, their crows are always just super happy and ready to rock, but respectful about it. Even when it’s 400 metalheads in here we just don’t have a single worry. The whole staff always reports after those shows, “Oh it was an awesome night! Everyone was super friendly and nobody gave us any hassle.”

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I don’t know. There are just so many shows that I think are a positive experience. It constantly reinforces why I like to have this job.

The Melvins

What are your impressions on Madison’s music scene? What kinds of changes have you noticed since your days at O’Cayz?

I sort of have a weird perspective on this, maybe, because I feel like many years ago (especially at O’Cayz as compared to here),  I feel like local bands tried harder to be a part of the scene and make a name for themselves. That may just be sort of a skewed perspective because the internet wasn’t as available for promoting yourself, so you really had to literally pound the pavement and make fliers and put them up, and go visit venues and talk to bookers, and like bust your ass to make a name for yourselves.

Now I think a lot of bands just make their Myspace page or their Facebook page and they update it or try to get friends to join, but it leaves a person like me out a little bit, which is weird. I’d like to book a lot more local bands, but I often just don’t know about them. They just don’t think to make that extra move to actually contact places that would book shows for them.

It constantly amazes me when I’ll book one band and they’ll be like, “Oh! Well we know these three other local bands that we’d like to play with,” and I’ve never heard of any of them. It’s like, really? And I’ll go check them out and it’s like, “They’ve been around for three years? What?!” It’s weird. It makes me feel a little uncomfortable like I’m doing something wrong! [laughs]

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When that article came out in The Isthmus about the bands that have been doing really well on campus, I only knew one of those bands! I was like “Really, these people are packing shows? Why have I never heard their name before?” I mean, for whatever it’s worth, I would love to support more local bands. That’s a big part of my philosophy. Because we’re [open] seven nights a week, we have nights available where we could do that, you know?  I guess that would be my shout out to the Madison music scene: make yourselves known. There’s people out there that want to support you.

What advice would you give to someone who wanted to open their own venue?

I would say one big thing is to stay really grounded, especially in your expectations. I mean, I think that a lot of people have a far off opinion that it’s a glamorous job and that you’re going to spend your time hobnobbing with rock stars and stuff like that and it’s totally not like that. [laughs] I mean, it’s really a lot of day-to-day boring work—of course some of it is fun, and any job is what you make it, but there’s a lot of things you need to stay on top of on a daily basis that are not glamorous.

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It’s really easy to get caught up in the fun parts of it and slack on the more businessey parts of it. That’s the reason hat a lot of clubs don’t make it. I mean, yeah, you could throw a year’s worth of really great parties but then you’re like “Oh crap, I didn’t lay the groundwork for the future and now I’m done.”

And definitely I’d say staying a positive person and an accommodating person rather than making yourself hard to reach or really selective or picky, you know? As a musician, I’ve dealt with other club owners that are kind of like that and that seems to be another recipe for disaster.

Do you have any major plans for the future?

I think just keep doing what we’re doing. I mean, we’re always trying new things as far as what types of events we can have here. I think one thing that’s cool about the space is it’s really flexible, so we often do two or three different events in a day. I just like to stay open-minded about what those events could be. I would definitely just keep adding things like that.

I think we’re getting close to maximizing what we could do, without any major changes. In some ways it’s be really awesome if we could incorporate food more than just the pizza, but I don’t really think that’s a very viable option for us right now because we just don’t have any space for it and it would involve a totally different business model, so for now we’re not going to do that.

Have you ever thought about opening up another venue here in town?

Probably not. I’ve gotten that question a bunch before, and in some ways doing two is not quite twice the work—it’s more like one and a half times the work since you’re already sort of doing the basics, but I just don’t think I could take on anything else like that right now.

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Massive thanks to Cathy, and the staff at the High Noon Saloon.  Click here for a list of all upcoming shows at the venue.

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Filed under: Interviews, Sounding Board Blog Tagged: | Cathy Dethmers, High Noon Saloon, Interview